Please help with Saab Safir...

[Guest Andrey Tsvirenko]

I'm pretty sure that during Air Force service Safirs didn't have these labels.

 

... aha roger that, Jouni! As far as I got from Mikko's photos I have "91/90 OKTAN" is written there exactly and something more, probably volume....

 

Andrey

[Ilkka Mäkelä 1 222]

Could possibly be, 91/90 OKTAN MINIMUM or something like that, though I am not an expert and haven´t seen Mikko´s photographs...

 

But, the minimum octane content of the fuel that is allowed to be used would seem logical?

 

Prior to 1995, when I stopped flying, this type of text/label was not uncommon. Some planes did not have any labels about the fuel at all.

[Guest Andrey Tsvirenko]

photo, photo... here it is... not much help really ? 

[Ilkka Mäkelä 1 222]

Right you are, the picture is not very good.

 

However, OKTAN is in my opinion the Swedish verion of the word. The Finnish version would be "OKTAANIA", the plural form of the Finnish word "oktaani".

 

Maybe these markings are leftovers from original Swedish labelling?

 

Let´s hope some former Safir pilots will join the conversation later, when they find this question.

[Ilkka Mäkelä 1 222]

Trying to remember what was available before AVGAS 100LL, I remembered that there used to be a high octane, high lead aviation gasoline called 100/130.

 

In the picture, these exact numbers can be seen, with some imagination, and after the numbers possibly OKTAN.

 

Maybe the Safir could be run with both versions of avgas.

 

Look at the following article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas

 

The earlier civil avgas versions also include avgas 80/87.

 

91/90 probably was a military fuel version, as it is not mentioned in the Wikipedia article.

[Jukka Nisula 2 282]

Trying to remember what was available before AVGAS 100LL, I remembered that there used to be a high octane, high lead aviation gasoline called 100/130.

 

In the picture, these exact numbers can be seen, with some imagination, and after the numbers possibly OKTAN.

 

Maybe the Safir could be run with both versions of avgas.

 

Look at the following article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avgas

 

The earlier civil avgas versions also include avgas 80/87.

 

91/90 probably was a military fuel version, as it is not mentioned in the Wikipedia article.

 

Here are information of Saab 91C- and D-model Safirs (Flight manuals). The minimum octane for C-model (and earlier B) is 80 and for 91D-model the minimum octane is 91/96.

 

http://www.fcfk.com/safir/sb91/manuals/AFM91C_i1r2.pdf

 

http://www.fcfk.com/safir/sb91/manuals/AFM91D_i1r1.pdf

 

Jukka

[Ilkka Mäkelä 1 222]

Yes, I was wondering about 91/90, since the last octane number usually should be greater than the first one.

 

So, obviously, the faded texts should be 91/96 OKTAN and 100/130 OKTAN.

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

[Guest Xeo]

Hello there.

 

Thanks all for answers, it was very helpful.

 

I've got one more question: Navigation Light Blink lamp (num. 8 in first post in this topic) is it continious lightning or blinking ?

 

Btw, have a look at our first Safir preview videos:) http://sibwings.com/previews.php

 

Alex

SibWings team

[Guest Xeo]

Hello again,

 

We need your help with finnish switches in SAAB Safir D modification. as we happen to be a Russians we don't understand a word in Finnish.

So, please check the picture below and just translate the names of the switches.

 

 

Lots of thanks,

Alex

 

SibWings team

[Ilkka Mäkelä 1 222]

Hello guys, I´ll try to be as precise as I can. Most of us Finns have been away for the Midsummer holiday and the real experts may still be out there somewhere, but here goes:

 

This seems to be the modern version of the switch arrangement.

 

1) Navigation lights, up=continuous, middle =off, down=flashing

 

2) Position lights, (according to G. Bruun who has flown the Safir, one light is on top of the fuselage and a second light is under the fuselage), up=continuous, middle=off, down= blink/signal; push down once= one blink, push down twice= two blinks etc, used as signals for other aircraft or for a ground observer, also possible to use as a Morse code key, as the switch returns to middle position when released.

 

The other switches are all the same type: up=on, down=off.

 

3) Landing light left, on/off

 

4) Landing light right, on/off

 

5) Cockpit light, on/off

 

6) Pitot heat left, on/off

 

7) Pitot heat right, on/off

 

8/ Gyro compass synchronization (same as "flux valve?), on/off

 

9) Generator, on/off

 

10) - , hard to say, could be "AKKU" = battery on/off

 

11) AS.VALO + LENTOVALO (= 1) & 2)) master switch ?, on/off

 

12) Instrument panel & fuel gauge lights, on/off

 

13) Landing gear warning, on/off

 

I hope this helps and if something is wrong, surely someone else will correct me.

[Guest Andrey Tsvirenko]

Thank you Ilkka!

It's real help! I already got something with on-line dictionary ) but not everything was found... now is okay, but some questions arises:

 

Two pitot heats working separately ? which one is for what... and is it possible situation if one is freezes and second not ? pretty strange decision.. why don't heat them parallel...

 

8/ Gyro compass synchronization (same as "flux valve?), on/off

flux valve already is in the same machine (all photos from one SF-3)... double again...

 

what is in English for "TASAVIRTA" ? same battery (AKKU) ? DC-System ?

 

Okay all of that seems not to principal to me.. any way some of features will be used just by few users, but we are trying to do all we can....

 

Release is soon stay interested!

 

Andrey

 

 

[Ilkka Mäkelä 1 222]

Well, tasavirta = direct current = DC, as you said.

 

About the two pitot heats, I have no idea why, but so it says. Pitot lämpö= pitot heat, vas = left, oik = right. Maybe there are two pitot tubes, one "normal" and a second "emergency" or "reference". This question needs an expert 

[Guest Andrey Tsvirenko]

12) Instrument panel & fuel gauge lights, on/off

 

One more.. are you sure it's exactly light ? Swedish C version Safir has power supply  switch for some gauges there - "(Gives power to the fuel instruments and the temp instrumets e g oiltemp, carburator inlet temp)" - it's from Swedish pilot.

 

Andrey

[Jukka Siirilä 80]

One more.. are you sure it's exactly light ? Swedish C version Safir has power supply  switch for some gauges there - "(Gives power to the fuel instruments and the temp instrumets e g oiltemp, carburator inlet temp)" - it's from Swedish pilot.

 

Exactly TAULUV (Tauluvalot) is instrument panel lights and PA-mittari is Fuel Gauge. But I don't know what that switch does exactly.

[Ilkka Mäkelä 1 222]

You may be right there about number 12.

 

It says "TAULUV" which could be instrument panel lights (V= VALOT) or instrument panel electric current  if V = VIRTA = current.

 

In any case, TAULU = short for MITTARITAULU = short for instrument panel. V= either VALOT, lights, or VIRTA, electric power.

 

It is easy to make a mistake there as only one letter V really does not say what it actually means, unless you know what the switch does...

[Ilkka Mäkelä 1 222]

Well, one last remark, on this switch panel there is no other switch for instrument panel lights than possibly No. 12.

 

Is there some other switch for instrument panel lights somewhere else in the cockpit? If so, then this question would be easier.

 

I would imagine that somewhere there HAS to be a switch for instrument panel lights for flying at night.

 

I could be wrong about this, of course, maybe this switch No. 12 switches on the instrument panel lights also during daytime, but in all the aircraft I have ever flown, there has been a separate switch for instrument panel lights, sometimes even with adjustable brightness controls as well.

 

Of course, the Safir is an early design with special features and I have no experience with it, but if a Swedish pilot says that some engine control instruments need electric power just to function, he might be right.

 

This is just about the maximum help I can give. Good luck with your project.

[Guest Andrey Tsvirenko]

Yes it is... three reostats on the top panel, right above pilot's head, for panel light regulation... I do belive I'm right, HB-DBL we did have same switch, but piper's gauges is installed there... okay probably finnish pilot will notice our model one day, we'll change\fix as soon as got exact info.

 

Andrey

[Guest gbr]

There is an arm with a red light in the cockpit roof that you can aim against the instrument panel when flying during night. What I can remember there is no lights in the instruments. The needles/numbers are painted with phosphorus paint and will be illuminated with the lamp in the roof.

>Göran

[Ilkka Mäkelä 1 222]

If this is correct, then switch No. 12 obviously switches on electric current for some of the instruments in the instrument panel, including the fuel gauge, which need electric power to function.

 

Then again, if the original Saab instruments in the panel have later been replaced with more modern instruments which have internal lights or small electric bulbs under or over each instrument ( the Aztec or Navajo are examples of this latter arrangement), this question is more difficult to solve.

 

I suppose it all comes down to which Safir version you guys want, the early authentic Safir or some more modern version - or both 

[Kimmo Hantula 1]

Electrical part of manual

http://colibri.yi.org/jakelu/safirelec.PDF 7Mb

 

Diagram for manual

http://colibri.yi.org/jakelu/safirdiag.PDF 1,5Mb

[Pentti Hyvärinen 1]

Hello again guys! Sorry for my freezes - a lot of work here.

Thank you for information and comments, this is really helpful!

 

I'm again with couple questions to you:

 

1 Can anyone help with photos of surrounded labels ? (as for number 1

it's just frame enough, as for number 2 photo and text is very welcome)

 

I have a loads of photos of SF-3 (much thanks to Mikko  Maliniemi) but

unfortunately the plane is not in great condition, that labels are

lost...

 

 

2 Does anybody know the color of gauge night highlight is red, same as

Swedish has ? or it's different ?

 

3 Can anyone help with photo of down wing side ? (Same with point 1 I

do not sure is any registration information written on wing down

side...)

 

 

 

Andrey

 

Some pictures taken of SF-2 in K-SIM, Tikkakoski.  Hope they will help You.

 

 

 

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I cant see any registration there in the down side of the wing. I think, that it's the same in all SF:s in FAF.

 

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[Guest Andrey Tsvirenko]

Hello guys!

 

Sure that helps! Model is under Beta 2 tests now, as soon as we got all bugs catched and fixed same day release will happend

 

Andrey

[Guest gbr]

There were normally no registration numbers under the wings, only the national insignias. On some aircraft the individual number was painted under the wing with water based red colour (some years other colours may have been used), when the aircraft was taking part in the national competition in precision flying. At least one of these aircraft was SF-23 during summer 1976.

> Göran